You and JP? Oh yes! Taking this in FULLY and will re-read again this weekend to savor the blending of humor and genius. We'd damn well better acknowledge the powerful yearnings/cravings of the "god shaped hole in our hearts" before it's too late...I'm a pragmatic optimist AND our species IS on the edge. THANK you Jamie for sharing your brilliant poly-theoretical mind...with us.
Thousands of years spent “debating” which belief system is true, which belief works the best for a human wanting to win at life, or win at spirituality, so little time, if any, spent asking “is this belief system compatible with life on earth, with how earth works, and with the rest of life on earth?”
Seems most religions and modern spirituality, including the new age and personal development industry, are coming only from, or mostly from, the human centered or human supremacist paradigm. Shaping all of life on earth to coincide with these beliefs. That’s a problem, or maybe even the root of our collective predicament. Make all of earth in the image of a god that man made.
Also kinda seems like most religions helped craft neoliberal economic theory, and it seems like most of the new age, as well as the mega church industry, is just neoliberal economic theory. So these strange bedfellows of new age people, or personal developers, signing up as born-again fundie Christian’s, isn’t strange at all, at root it’s the same exact paradigm. Throw in some confusingly muddled concepts extracted from the greater context of non-dualist philosophies, and it’s a sociopathic nightmare (i.e. I AM GOD therefore can manifest whatever I want, being Source of all!)
Beliefs are certainly important to have for sure, but what if those beliefs aren’t compatible with the rest of our family of life? Beliefs never just stay inside our heads. That’s catastrophe in the making when it’s billions of people believing foggy things and then creating and enforcing those ideas on all the rest of life.
As for spiritual experiences that accompany these beliefs, personally I see them as real, but those beliefs and identities are powerful filters that translate those experiences of Spirit and nature into more of the same human supremacy.
Wish this was openly discussed way way more than it is, so thanks for cracking it open so frequently, Jamie.
Also, does JP ever mention bonobos? Honestly don’t know. Seems he’s got a thing for basing his lifestyle system or philosophy on male adolescent chimps, not just lobsters. Does he ever hang out with Dr Jane Goodall for some “outside the echo chamber” time? Or would he consider a source like, the Max Planck Institute, for example, as anything other than liberal or ungodly propaganda (good ongoing research there about our OTHER closest relative, bonobos, who sure do like to get sexy but that’s still only part of their story, too)
As for the inaccurate stories our popular culture spreads about nature, about how nature is, making the *whole story* about nature, and therefore humans, just about male hierarchy, dominance, and predation, it would be fun for some influencers to spend a few years in the bush working with guides and trackers and indigenous people. Some funny stories from safari guide James Hendry about tourists complaining over how boring the wildlife turned out to be, how little killing and sex actually was going on out there in the wild. Not to mention that it’s the herbivores, matriarchal in their hierarchy, too! that are the most dangerous on-foot but also in-vehicle (ellies and buffaloes)
Pop culture or even “dominant culture” beliefs about nature are inaccurate at best, and yet the entire world has been forced and controlled to try and resemble those overly reductionist, human centered stories.
Excellent, especially your point that there doesn't seem to be any alternatives that can get any traction (previous comment ), including the Metamodern project.
While I can appreciate your framing, you leave us with no solutions. I pointed out, on one of your previous posts, the model of Sarvodaya Shramadana, a 65 year old project from Sri Lanka that IS an on the ground solution - and has inspired me in the West.
Not to be a broken record, but I reached out before to dialogue about that with you. I have worked for more than 40 years on practical applications of what could be called a Trans-Religious on-the-ground community network that I call Symbiotic Culture.
The religious, spiritual but not religious, and secular folks all agree upon the importance of universal Virtues like sharing, generosity, service, compassion, etc. as part of building community. Combining shared virtues and common community needs such as local food, water, energy, environment, arts and culture is the basis for building popular, local community movements. It has worked and it is working. It is just time to make it real.
Here are two recent posts:
The De-Platforming of God (okay, that's provocative)
It's that frame that Schmachtenberger uses, from Marvin Harris- Infrastructure, Social Structure, Superstructure. We have to have a Superstructure. Left Hemispheric Rationalism is imporant, but has limits- we hunger for the Transcendent.
What strikes me about the lurching toward an external structure for transcendence and grounding is that the keyword is "external". It IS possible for an individual to establish a relationship--a richly rewarding way to fill that God-shaped hole--to something greater than themself. But it's not easy. It takes focus, and practice, and a significant effort to figure things out, more or less alone (though it's possible albeit not easy to find like-minded others to navigate those waters with). What you're highlighting is the appeal of that outside structure, that source of defining narrative, and a prepackaged collection of fellow travelers; being told what to do, in other words.
I live in Reno Tahoe. If any reader is interested, here's my company: www.RegenesisReno.com/aboutus. I'm a Burner, yet we believe strongly massive change is possible through an alliance combining our evangelical/born-again neighbors and our Spiritual, But Not Religious (SBNRs). We believe in cocreating new communities in Reno Tahoe as the Exponential Twenties unfold. If any readers are interested, please DM me.
Your headline grabbed my attention and I couldn't resist reading this piece even though I'm deep in packing my home into boxes to move next week. I have an ongoing obsession with understanding religion and religiosity. Several of Karen Armstrong's books are in said boxes waiting for their new home along with a copy of Jeff Sharlet's 2008 book The Family. In the run up to the 2016 election, I had an intution bsed on my mom's weird beliefs and behavior that there was a dark link between American Fundamentalism and right wing American Catholicism, so I dug around and learned enough to scare myself. It was more than I imagined. I was raised Catholic, spent 11 years in Catholic school and my mother and step-father (now deceased) were members of both the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre and the Order of Malta, not Opus Dei, but not that far off. When they were pre-school age, my daughter and neice found klan resembling robes in a closet at their house and even at their age, they knew there was something weird about them and showed them to my sister and me.
I'm a believer... not affiliated with a religion now, but I have a spiritual community and love ritual and prayer. In any case, the reason for my comment is that it seems to me that the conversion trend is about looking for community with something deep and meaningful at the heart. One of the problems however is that this seems for many to quickly become a kind of fervent zealotry which reveals only a lack of faith and an ancient need for power and control - and then, in brief, we end up with a bunch of nutjobs on the Supreme Court. (I can't read the NY Mag piece due to paywall). If people didn't just join the church, but did so with a humble intent to find a God they could surrender to rather than something "right" that they could then stand on and preach about, it would be different, but that seems to be the rare human.
When you add quantum entanglement to the disparate attempts to understand "spiritual" phenomena it seems there are unlimited depths that have yet to be explored and explained. Humans on the other hand have only the natural evolutionary psychology that evolved 200,000 years ago. There is a pushback against hypermodernism the result of culture evolving faster than biology, too fast for many to appreciate or comprehend. If there is a god like cosmic consciousness it is encouraging preparation for the collapse of neo-liberal modernist conservative mindset.
We need new heroes. I would recommend you to look at Asia for constrast. I think Naruto was a failed attemp to create a modern hero (and only failed because producers diviated the author from answering the difficult question so the anime lasted longer for longer profits). "My Hero Academia" recently finished as manga and Deku as a self-less hero is a great tale... But what I think we are missing is an "Egoist" hero. That's where the anime/manga "Blue Lock" is making a huge impact.
The messianic impulse is the beggining of a new religion
Two important words: “culture” and emerging “zeitgeist”. I would propose that it is not a religious problem but rather a cultural problem as I would also propose that religion is in service to culture. Different worldviews, perspectives, grand narratives, et voila. And it all emerges within co-creation. JBP no longer makes the sense that he did when bounding into fame, as he and his base have co-created and emerged to become a new fringe establishment to culture war with the establishment they rile against. I would propose that meaning is created, it is not fundamental or absolute. Yet meaning is lost in self-absorption and self-service. Define your sacred and recognized that which is greater than the little self and then sacrifice being in service. That is what is to be deciphered. Peace Bro. And I vibe with your perspective, mind and turn of phrase! 🤜
I like John Vervaeke's ideas from his YouTube lectures on The Meaning Crisis. John would consider himself a philosophical Daoist and non theist. He represents a large group of post modern who have been inspired by eastern mysticism and found enough meaning to fill the God shaped hole. What are your thoughts?
“Because what we’re really experiencing is a collapse in shared meaning itself.”
In the final pages of his book, The Mass Psychology of Fascism, Wilhelm Reich offered, “in the final analysis, the German people knew they were in league with the devil, but Hitler provided them with a sense of shared identity and purpose, which proved preferable to an otherwise meaningless existence.”
Brilliant as always - thank you ! 2 quick reflections as a path forward. Looking back at the Existentialist’s struggling with crafting a morality without the Big Guy in the mix - the one above and the one below, they managed to rest into their humanity as the guiding principle …the whole hot mess of it. My takeaway was the vacuum that a godless world leaves behind is filled with presence, and heart. Seeing Life unfiltered for what it is - agnostic - and crafting a morality from choice, guided by what is in us. - the invitation is answering, what exactly IS in us? As for “nature” abhorring a vacuum…I might invite a different tone here and merely suggest a page from your own mantra about flow. Nature doesn’t abhor…it flows. That’s good enough for me. As for where it’s headed…well that’s on me too, that’s on “we” too. So, going back to physics …what we put our attention on grows. So what do we want to grow?
You and JP? Oh yes! Taking this in FULLY and will re-read again this weekend to savor the blending of humor and genius. We'd damn well better acknowledge the powerful yearnings/cravings of the "god shaped hole in our hearts" before it's too late...I'm a pragmatic optimist AND our species IS on the edge. THANK you Jamie for sharing your brilliant poly-theoretical mind...with us.
Thousands of years spent “debating” which belief system is true, which belief works the best for a human wanting to win at life, or win at spirituality, so little time, if any, spent asking “is this belief system compatible with life on earth, with how earth works, and with the rest of life on earth?”
Seems most religions and modern spirituality, including the new age and personal development industry, are coming only from, or mostly from, the human centered or human supremacist paradigm. Shaping all of life on earth to coincide with these beliefs. That’s a problem, or maybe even the root of our collective predicament. Make all of earth in the image of a god that man made.
Also kinda seems like most religions helped craft neoliberal economic theory, and it seems like most of the new age, as well as the mega church industry, is just neoliberal economic theory. So these strange bedfellows of new age people, or personal developers, signing up as born-again fundie Christian’s, isn’t strange at all, at root it’s the same exact paradigm. Throw in some confusingly muddled concepts extracted from the greater context of non-dualist philosophies, and it’s a sociopathic nightmare (i.e. I AM GOD therefore can manifest whatever I want, being Source of all!)
Beliefs are certainly important to have for sure, but what if those beliefs aren’t compatible with the rest of our family of life? Beliefs never just stay inside our heads. That’s catastrophe in the making when it’s billions of people believing foggy things and then creating and enforcing those ideas on all the rest of life.
As for spiritual experiences that accompany these beliefs, personally I see them as real, but those beliefs and identities are powerful filters that translate those experiences of Spirit and nature into more of the same human supremacy.
Wish this was openly discussed way way more than it is, so thanks for cracking it open so frequently, Jamie.
Also, does JP ever mention bonobos? Honestly don’t know. Seems he’s got a thing for basing his lifestyle system or philosophy on male adolescent chimps, not just lobsters. Does he ever hang out with Dr Jane Goodall for some “outside the echo chamber” time? Or would he consider a source like, the Max Planck Institute, for example, as anything other than liberal or ungodly propaganda (good ongoing research there about our OTHER closest relative, bonobos, who sure do like to get sexy but that’s still only part of their story, too)
As for the inaccurate stories our popular culture spreads about nature, about how nature is, making the *whole story* about nature, and therefore humans, just about male hierarchy, dominance, and predation, it would be fun for some influencers to spend a few years in the bush working with guides and trackers and indigenous people. Some funny stories from safari guide James Hendry about tourists complaining over how boring the wildlife turned out to be, how little killing and sex actually was going on out there in the wild. Not to mention that it’s the herbivores, matriarchal in their hierarchy, too! that are the most dangerous on-foot but also in-vehicle (ellies and buffaloes)
Pop culture or even “dominant culture” beliefs about nature are inaccurate at best, and yet the entire world has been forced and controlled to try and resemble those overly reductionist, human centered stories.
Quick Question: NOW WHAT!?!??!?
Excellent, especially your point that there doesn't seem to be any alternatives that can get any traction (previous comment ), including the Metamodern project.
While I can appreciate your framing, you leave us with no solutions. I pointed out, on one of your previous posts, the model of Sarvodaya Shramadana, a 65 year old project from Sri Lanka that IS an on the ground solution - and has inspired me in the West.
Not to be a broken record, but I reached out before to dialogue about that with you. I have worked for more than 40 years on practical applications of what could be called a Trans-Religious on-the-ground community network that I call Symbiotic Culture.
The religious, spiritual but not religious, and secular folks all agree upon the importance of universal Virtues like sharing, generosity, service, compassion, etc. as part of building community. Combining shared virtues and common community needs such as local food, water, energy, environment, arts and culture is the basis for building popular, local community movements. It has worked and it is working. It is just time to make it real.
Here are two recent posts:
The De-Platforming of God (okay, that's provocative)
https://richardflyer.substack.com/p/seeking-the-holy-grail-of-community-b84
Symbiotic Circles as a "Cultural Recovery" group - this is the Trans religious framing Is spoke about
https://richardflyer.substack.com/p/seeking-the-holy-grail-of-community-4c2
Have a great day!
It's that frame that Schmachtenberger uses, from Marvin Harris- Infrastructure, Social Structure, Superstructure. We have to have a Superstructure. Left Hemispheric Rationalism is imporant, but has limits- we hunger for the Transcendent.
What strikes me about the lurching toward an external structure for transcendence and grounding is that the keyword is "external". It IS possible for an individual to establish a relationship--a richly rewarding way to fill that God-shaped hole--to something greater than themself. But it's not easy. It takes focus, and practice, and a significant effort to figure things out, more or less alone (though it's possible albeit not easy to find like-minded others to navigate those waters with). What you're highlighting is the appeal of that outside structure, that source of defining narrative, and a prepackaged collection of fellow travelers; being told what to do, in other words.
I live in Reno Tahoe. If any reader is interested, here's my company: www.RegenesisReno.com/aboutus. I'm a Burner, yet we believe strongly massive change is possible through an alliance combining our evangelical/born-again neighbors and our Spiritual, But Not Religious (SBNRs). We believe in cocreating new communities in Reno Tahoe as the Exponential Twenties unfold. If any readers are interested, please DM me.
Gordon, it is great to see you here! Let's schedule that call we discussed.
Your headline grabbed my attention and I couldn't resist reading this piece even though I'm deep in packing my home into boxes to move next week. I have an ongoing obsession with understanding religion and religiosity. Several of Karen Armstrong's books are in said boxes waiting for their new home along with a copy of Jeff Sharlet's 2008 book The Family. In the run up to the 2016 election, I had an intution bsed on my mom's weird beliefs and behavior that there was a dark link between American Fundamentalism and right wing American Catholicism, so I dug around and learned enough to scare myself. It was more than I imagined. I was raised Catholic, spent 11 years in Catholic school and my mother and step-father (now deceased) were members of both the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre and the Order of Malta, not Opus Dei, but not that far off. When they were pre-school age, my daughter and neice found klan resembling robes in a closet at their house and even at their age, they knew there was something weird about them and showed them to my sister and me.
I'm a believer... not affiliated with a religion now, but I have a spiritual community and love ritual and prayer. In any case, the reason for my comment is that it seems to me that the conversion trend is about looking for community with something deep and meaningful at the heart. One of the problems however is that this seems for many to quickly become a kind of fervent zealotry which reveals only a lack of faith and an ancient need for power and control - and then, in brief, we end up with a bunch of nutjobs on the Supreme Court. (I can't read the NY Mag piece due to paywall). If people didn't just join the church, but did so with a humble intent to find a God they could surrender to rather than something "right" that they could then stand on and preach about, it would be different, but that seems to be the rare human.
Mud Wrestling with Shamans
I found Michael Winkelman (https://youtu.be/RpEc0L7RG3E?si=wwGq_WdKljUofejc) a while back and his take on the stoned ape hypothesis was enchanting.
Rupert Sheldrake (https://www.sheldrake.org/essays/fields-of-being-on-morphic-resonance) described consciousness as a morphic field in which familiarity bound sentient individuals in a psychic network.
I only recently found and read James McClenon (https://www.academia.edu/58479817/Shamanic_healing_human_evolution_and_the_origin_of_religion).
When you add quantum entanglement to the disparate attempts to understand "spiritual" phenomena it seems there are unlimited depths that have yet to be explored and explained. Humans on the other hand have only the natural evolutionary psychology that evolved 200,000 years ago. There is a pushback against hypermodernism the result of culture evolving faster than biology, too fast for many to appreciate or comprehend. If there is a god like cosmic consciousness it is encouraging preparation for the collapse of neo-liberal modernist conservative mindset.
We need new heroes. I would recommend you to look at Asia for constrast. I think Naruto was a failed attemp to create a modern hero (and only failed because producers diviated the author from answering the difficult question so the anime lasted longer for longer profits). "My Hero Academia" recently finished as manga and Deku as a self-less hero is a great tale... But what I think we are missing is an "Egoist" hero. That's where the anime/manga "Blue Lock" is making a huge impact.
The messianic impulse is the beggining of a new religion
Very good
Two important words: “culture” and emerging “zeitgeist”. I would propose that it is not a religious problem but rather a cultural problem as I would also propose that religion is in service to culture. Different worldviews, perspectives, grand narratives, et voila. And it all emerges within co-creation. JBP no longer makes the sense that he did when bounding into fame, as he and his base have co-created and emerged to become a new fringe establishment to culture war with the establishment they rile against. I would propose that meaning is created, it is not fundamental or absolute. Yet meaning is lost in self-absorption and self-service. Define your sacred and recognized that which is greater than the little self and then sacrifice being in service. That is what is to be deciphered. Peace Bro. And I vibe with your perspective, mind and turn of phrase! 🤜
I like John Vervaeke's ideas from his YouTube lectures on The Meaning Crisis. John would consider himself a philosophical Daoist and non theist. He represents a large group of post modern who have been inspired by eastern mysticism and found enough meaning to fill the God shaped hole. What are your thoughts?
please dont leave out gameB buddy Jordan (Green)Hall 😂
I didn't. he's a good friend. just reckon he's not as publicly known
Damn Jamie. This is a mic drop. 🎤
“Because what we’re really experiencing is a collapse in shared meaning itself.”
In the final pages of his book, The Mass Psychology of Fascism, Wilhelm Reich offered, “in the final analysis, the German people knew they were in league with the devil, but Hitler provided them with a sense of shared identity and purpose, which proved preferable to an otherwise meaningless existence.”
Brilliant as always - thank you ! 2 quick reflections as a path forward. Looking back at the Existentialist’s struggling with crafting a morality without the Big Guy in the mix - the one above and the one below, they managed to rest into their humanity as the guiding principle …the whole hot mess of it. My takeaway was the vacuum that a godless world leaves behind is filled with presence, and heart. Seeing Life unfiltered for what it is - agnostic - and crafting a morality from choice, guided by what is in us. - the invitation is answering, what exactly IS in us? As for “nature” abhorring a vacuum…I might invite a different tone here and merely suggest a page from your own mantra about flow. Nature doesn’t abhor…it flows. That’s good enough for me. As for where it’s headed…well that’s on me too, that’s on “we” too. So, going back to physics …what we put our attention on grows. So what do we want to grow?