I had a very near-miss with OT 10 years ago and got to see, up close, my own profoundly wounded sense of belonging and how easily that could be made into someone else's ATM-machine.
It took volunteering for "back-of-house" at an Intensive to fully grok that the Emperor Had No Clothes.
The appalling behavior of staff...including being berated for things like being within eye-shot of Nicole when she walked from the main house to her casita ("You must know where Nicole is at ALL times") and for not making the almond milk in their latte frothy enough for one of the staff...these were just a few of the moments that woke me up to the fact that I was trading my dignity for proximity to a mirage. I'd been spiritually glamoured by virtue of my emotional deficits. It triggered a lot of growth for me, which of course, OT would take full credit for. But it was the growth of 'that shit ain't right'-kind of spiritual and emotional discernment that you only really learn the hard way.
I joined OT when they were still small, and those behaviors that you describe during BOH gradually got worse as they scaled the business. It crept up on me and there wasn’t a stark contrast present that would help me notice how bad it was.
Looking forward to your next book (meaning 3.0?) and wondering is there any way to get updates on your community experiments in Colorado to replicate and experiment in Hawaii? Also #radicalmonogamy, that cracked me up. 🙈
If I was able to have a conversation with you, one of my off the record questions would be: Why many men in the wisdom circles I admire think Marc Gafni is wise? It’s frightening that even they aren’t picking up on something so blatant.
There was a lonliness I had to meet in myself when I realized that I only had myself to trust about who is trustable or not, since even men who appear wise and admirable, still seem to gravitate to the Gafnis of the world.
"when I realized that I only had myself to trust about who is trustable or not, since even men who appear wise and admirable, still seem to gravitate to the Gafnis of the world."
Too many of these red flags in my experiences, so hard to not become this, knowingly or unknowingly. Sacrifice, patience, commitment, grounding, humility, and answering to elders from within an earth-centered wisdom tradition does help. But the fogs are getting thicker and thicker. People who would never seem to fall down these fked up bunny holes seem to be tripping down them left and right. And the level of ridiculous just gets turned up higher and faster. We need to have these reminders, thank you for your clear naming of what fuckery ails us and fails us.
The documentary Orgasm Inc. sketches the rise of Daedone, a sharp-tongued seductress —a sex guru who became a Silicon Valley messiah—and the wake of human wreckage she left behind. Possibly worth 90 minutes of your life if you’ve got an anthropologist’s curiosity for cults, or just want to see how easily tech bros and other desperate folks trade logic for enlightenment when sex and pseudo-spiritual jargon are in the mix. We see the same seduction with psychedelics in those communities.
Allegedly, she cashed out for $12 million in 2017—just before the buyers (naturally) slapped on a shiny rebrand once the fan met the excrement. EST begat The Forum, etc. We’ve seen this movie before.
It's astonishing. In the documentary, it seems like quite a few people were able to have new, detailed, and blissful experiences. And our entire system is based on profiting from people's happiness (or unhappiness \oo/), whether it's sugar, video games, or whatever.
Here, suddenly, it's supposed to be reprehensible, even though OM seems to be much more sustainable. Some people were able to take something away for life. But yes, people who are too happy, and also sustainably happy—the profit system doesn't like that.
Jamie makes many important points that define cult-like conditions. Here, it seems to me that OM does some good for a while, and at the beginning. In the end, however, OM overdoes it, and it becomes something only for the rich, or it becomes a useless mass movement, or it turns into a scam. And silly rituals are invented for it. To the detriment of the people.
Paying for your own orgasm? A strange profit system.
Interesting. Do you think people jumping into lynch mobs to come after whatever target is fashionable that week uses the same psychology that lures them into cults? I don't think it's called cancel culture anymore, but it still seems rife. And the band wagons are heaving.
Environmental lawyer Andrew Kimbrell refers to the secular "holy trinity" holding up our narratives of progress as the Cult of Objectivity, Cult of Efficiency, and Cult of Competition. Now, whether these culturally reinforced "absolute truths" are Cults, that is debatable but certainly they have some elements of them.
I agree with your points and also your concluding statement about things being super wierd these days..
After all, Reese Jones, OT's major investor is all about transhumanism and ushering a new age for humanity (so was Jeffrey Epstein). Another commonality between Epstein and Reese: alleged sex trafficking. Details of the OT criminal case show that Reese required OT staff to provide sexual services to him.
You are an excellent writer, man, whatever your lineage. 🙏 Thought I’d mention the 2011 documentary(?) Kumare: the true story of a false prophet. It doesn’t directly apply to this particular piece of yours, but kinda somewhat
Thanks for this, Jamie, which I find to be spot-on.
I think the four "reasons" you end with are especially helpful, and that the one-two-punch of "generational amnesia" juxtaposed with "digital influencer culture" to be particularly unhealthy.
When we were young, we didn't want to follow our parents' world, did we? In any case, there were some of us who had questioned and kept wondering why everything didn't seem to be perfect in the adult world. In particular, happiness, love, tenderness, trust, friendship, closeness, wisdom and so much more seemed strangely excluded to us, at least if you looked closely as a child or teenager. And some who are young today will feel the same way. So we set out to find out where it was. How can we lead a different, better life. Errors were and are not excluded. The acceleration through modern media makes it easier for charlatans to fill the bell bag, albeit with all sorts of competition. Gurus were once something unique, today you stand alongside many. But let us not forget that some people's search for a fulfilling life is an honest and serious matter and that there are also people who can provide answers. It is wise to be careful when a person proclaims that he knows all the right things. A good guru shows you that you have to have your own experiences no matter where you go. Hermann Hesse wrote Siddartha. Siddartha followed his own path and even when he met Gautama Buddha, he traveled further, leaving the Kindermenschen behind. He was always ready to question his own actions. I think this story makes sense in this context. We always have to go into something and live it out, even if we fear that we will realize in retrospect that it was just an illusion, for example: success makes you happy, sex makes you happy, being a boss is everything, starting a family is the way, submitting to the right teachings brings enlightenment, taking psychedelics gets rid of all my problems, etc. A lot of this can be partially true but not absolutely. The fact that we meet people who take advantage of our weaknesses and exploit us is inherent in the system of Maya. I mean: there are both sides. Thanks for the inspiration.
I was still ‘in’ when they began their association with your work, and they were using the term ‘flow' around the office a lot. I had a conversation with Justine about how I was disappointed with myself that I wasn’t hitting flow state lately. I'd never heard anything about this incident at your presentation, and had assumed you were on good terms with them all these years.
Jamie, I can understand your disdain for OneTaste. But you still respect and endorse the Orgasmic Meditation practice detached from it's corporate steward, correct?
I had a very near-miss with OT 10 years ago and got to see, up close, my own profoundly wounded sense of belonging and how easily that could be made into someone else's ATM-machine.
It took volunteering for "back-of-house" at an Intensive to fully grok that the Emperor Had No Clothes.
The appalling behavior of staff...including being berated for things like being within eye-shot of Nicole when she walked from the main house to her casita ("You must know where Nicole is at ALL times") and for not making the almond milk in their latte frothy enough for one of the staff...these were just a few of the moments that woke me up to the fact that I was trading my dignity for proximity to a mirage. I'd been spiritually glamoured by virtue of my emotional deficits. It triggered a lot of growth for me, which of course, OT would take full credit for. But it was the growth of 'that shit ain't right'-kind of spiritual and emotional discernment that you only really learn the hard way.
I joined OT when they were still small, and those behaviors that you describe during BOH gradually got worse as they scaled the business. It crept up on me and there wasn’t a stark contrast present that would help me notice how bad it was.
Looking forward to your next book (meaning 3.0?) and wondering is there any way to get updates on your community experiments in Colorado to replicate and experiment in Hawaii? Also #radicalmonogamy, that cracked me up. 🙈
If I was able to have a conversation with you, one of my off the record questions would be: Why many men in the wisdom circles I admire think Marc Gafni is wise? It’s frightening that even they aren’t picking up on something so blatant.
There was a lonliness I had to meet in myself when I realized that I only had myself to trust about who is trustable or not, since even men who appear wise and admirable, still seem to gravitate to the Gafnis of the world.
mmm cuz they don't know how to use Google?
???
"when I realized that I only had myself to trust about who is trustable or not, since even men who appear wise and admirable, still seem to gravitate to the Gafnis of the world."
lots unsaid...but okay
Too many of these red flags in my experiences, so hard to not become this, knowingly or unknowingly. Sacrifice, patience, commitment, grounding, humility, and answering to elders from within an earth-centered wisdom tradition does help. But the fogs are getting thicker and thicker. People who would never seem to fall down these fked up bunny holes seem to be tripping down them left and right. And the level of ridiculous just gets turned up higher and faster. We need to have these reminders, thank you for your clear naming of what fuckery ails us and fails us.
The documentary Orgasm Inc. sketches the rise of Daedone, a sharp-tongued seductress —a sex guru who became a Silicon Valley messiah—and the wake of human wreckage she left behind. Possibly worth 90 minutes of your life if you’ve got an anthropologist’s curiosity for cults, or just want to see how easily tech bros and other desperate folks trade logic for enlightenment when sex and pseudo-spiritual jargon are in the mix. We see the same seduction with psychedelics in those communities.
Allegedly, she cashed out for $12 million in 2017—just before the buyers (naturally) slapped on a shiny rebrand once the fan met the excrement. EST begat The Forum, etc. We’ve seen this movie before.
Thanks for the documentary recommendation!
It's astonishing. In the documentary, it seems like quite a few people were able to have new, detailed, and blissful experiences. And our entire system is based on profiting from people's happiness (or unhappiness \oo/), whether it's sugar, video games, or whatever.
Here, suddenly, it's supposed to be reprehensible, even though OM seems to be much more sustainable. Some people were able to take something away for life. But yes, people who are too happy, and also sustainably happy—the profit system doesn't like that.
Jamie makes many important points that define cult-like conditions. Here, it seems to me that OM does some good for a while, and at the beginning. In the end, however, OM overdoes it, and it becomes something only for the rich, or it becomes a useless mass movement, or it turns into a scam. And silly rituals are invented for it. To the detriment of the people.
Paying for your own orgasm? A strange profit system.
"you can always diddle your giblets for free!" All songwriters, particularly in Nashville, you have your idea and Chorus line right here.
Interesting. Do you think people jumping into lynch mobs to come after whatever target is fashionable that week uses the same psychology that lures them into cults? I don't think it's called cancel culture anymore, but it still seems rife. And the band wagons are heaving.
I'm dying to know how your presentation about sex cults was received 😂
Love the line about 'Generational Amnesia'. So true and cults ...isn't capitalism a cult? (Jus pondering :)
Environmental lawyer Andrew Kimbrell refers to the secular "holy trinity" holding up our narratives of progress as the Cult of Objectivity, Cult of Efficiency, and Cult of Competition. Now, whether these culturally reinforced "absolute truths" are Cults, that is debatable but certainly they have some elements of them.
I agree with your points and also your concluding statement about things being super wierd these days..
After all, Reese Jones, OT's major investor is all about transhumanism and ushering a new age for humanity (so was Jeffrey Epstein). Another commonality between Epstein and Reese: alleged sex trafficking. Details of the OT criminal case show that Reese required OT staff to provide sexual services to him.
You are an excellent writer, man, whatever your lineage. 🙏 Thought I’d mention the 2011 documentary(?) Kumare: the true story of a false prophet. It doesn’t directly apply to this particular piece of yours, but kinda somewhat
that's a great piece of performance art--and kinda chilling!
I agree. The reactions when he revealed himself in the end blew me away. Maybe they were also rehearsed? But for some reason I doubt it.
Thanks for this, Jamie, which I find to be spot-on.
I think the four "reasons" you end with are especially helpful, and that the one-two-punch of "generational amnesia" juxtaposed with "digital influencer culture" to be particularly unhealthy.
#fuckingmillennials
People who give you the answers are mistaken.
Answer your own questions with research. If it ain't a guide for your own discovery. It is a mind-manipulation KOOL-AID suppository for Jim Jones.
When we were young, we didn't want to follow our parents' world, did we? In any case, there were some of us who had questioned and kept wondering why everything didn't seem to be perfect in the adult world. In particular, happiness, love, tenderness, trust, friendship, closeness, wisdom and so much more seemed strangely excluded to us, at least if you looked closely as a child or teenager. And some who are young today will feel the same way. So we set out to find out where it was. How can we lead a different, better life. Errors were and are not excluded. The acceleration through modern media makes it easier for charlatans to fill the bell bag, albeit with all sorts of competition. Gurus were once something unique, today you stand alongside many. But let us not forget that some people's search for a fulfilling life is an honest and serious matter and that there are also people who can provide answers. It is wise to be careful when a person proclaims that he knows all the right things. A good guru shows you that you have to have your own experiences no matter where you go. Hermann Hesse wrote Siddartha. Siddartha followed his own path and even when he met Gautama Buddha, he traveled further, leaving the Kindermenschen behind. He was always ready to question his own actions. I think this story makes sense in this context. We always have to go into something and live it out, even if we fear that we will realize in retrospect that it was just an illusion, for example: success makes you happy, sex makes you happy, being a boss is everything, starting a family is the way, submitting to the right teachings brings enlightenment, taking psychedelics gets rid of all my problems, etc. A lot of this can be partially true but not absolutely. The fact that we meet people who take advantage of our weaknesses and exploit us is inherent in the system of Maya. I mean: there are both sides. Thanks for the inspiration.
I was still ‘in’ when they began their association with your work, and they were using the term ‘flow' around the office a lot. I had a conversation with Justine about how I was disappointed with myself that I wasn’t hitting flow state lately. I'd never heard anything about this incident at your presentation, and had assumed you were on good terms with them all these years.
Absolutely loved reading this. Thank you
I nearly signed up for this back in the day 😅. Guess I'm susceptible to things like this!
Jamie, I can understand your disdain for OneTaste. But you still respect and endorse the Orgasmic Meditation practice detached from it's corporate steward, correct?
not really. its ergonomics are terrible!